Jane Penny and Tops performed during Sled Island on Wednesday at 11pm at #1 Legion (Main Floor).
Interview conducted in collaboration with Reverie Magazine.
TRANSCRIPT:
Emily (CJSW)
My name is Emily, and I’m here on behalf of CJSW radio at this year’s Sled Island Music and Arts Festival. Today we’re sitting down with Jane Penny from Tops. How are you today?
Jane Penny
I’m doing great, thanks.
Emily (CJSW)
Right on. So this is your first time playing Sled Island correct?
Jane Penny
No, no actually. It was just so long ago that we played.
Emily (CJSW)
I thought I did my homework!
Jane Penny
No, it’s funny! It was like 2016, so it’s been a minute. So it was a long time ago, but yeah, we played in a little bar. I can’t remember which one, but I remember I saw ESG play at the Legion
Emily (CJSW)
Okay.
Jane Penny
And I really wanted to play at the Legion after that show. So this feels exciting to me.
Emily (CJSW)
That’s awesome. I didn’t know that. I saw ESG at a festival in like, Oakland, and just like, perfect.
Jane Penny
They were so good. They got a random drummer. They like, hired a drummer from Calgary to just do the show. I thought it was a fun, I’ve never had experience that before, where somebody just brings someone in from the city locally.
Emily (CJSW)
Yeah, I guess I was going to ask you maybe your favorite memory in that case. But would you classify that as your favorite memory? Or are there other Sled Island memories that come to mind?
Jane Penny
I feel like that was the highlight, for sure. I also I missed the Angel Olsen set, because I had a dinner with my family, and then I told myself I would see her again. And I still haven’t seen her, I’ve never seen her. So that’s, I guess that’s not a favorite memory. That’s more of a regret, but one day!
Emily (CJSW)
She’s definitely on my list of artists I want to see. I think All Mirrors carried me through 2019.
Jane Penny
Yeah, she’s incredible.
Emily (CJSW)
Okay, so you’ve performed in Calgary. Obviously you have family here. Do you have any favorite places you like to visit when you come through town?
Jane Penny
I don’t know Calgary that well, even though now it seems like I’ve been here many times, but I feel like I always love the river and yeah, the Legion is such a cool venue. I’ve been to the Folk Fest a couple times, but yeah, I think I need to spend more time here. My bandmate Marcy, that plays keyboard in Tops, she went thrifting today, and she does not know how she’s gonna take home all the clothes. So I’m a little jealous of her.
Emily (CJSW)
There’s good shopping here for sure. Yeah, that’s awesome. For anyone unfamiliar with your band. Can you give us a brief Tops origin story?
Jane Penny
Well, I guess David, the guitarist, and I have known each other since we were like 12. We both grew up in Edmonton, and then we met Riley, our drummer when we went to Montreal, and that would be like. I guess the band started around 2012 and, yeah, we’ve just kind of been doing sort of classic rock band meet sophista pop, kind of songwriting forward thing since then, and with thosethree original members. And then Marcy joined in 2018 and yeah, now I can’t remember what it would be like to not have her in the band. And yeah, we just love writing and recording our own songs.
Emily (CJSW)
I think that’s a great segue into our next question. In August, you’re releasing a new album. Bury the key, for me, it kind of gives me a feeling of needing to maybe keep something hidden, maybe kept private. I’m curious if you could expand on how you landed on the name and maybe the story behind it?
Jane Penny
Yeah, definitely. So it’s a lyric of one of the songs. I have a really hard time naming songs and naming albums unless it’s really obvious what it should be called. And I didn’t want to name it after song, because our last record was called I Feel Alive. And we have a song on the record called “I Feel Alive.” But I feel like the song, there’s—this song is specifically kind of about, like, having a, being in love with kind of like a mean, a mean boy. Sad, sadly, have occurs sometimes, and I feel like a lot of the record is kind of about sort of more self destructive things, or kind of like losing the plot in your own life, and also like secrecy and just different like, kind of—yeah, like, I felt like the metaphor of burying a key is sort of like, why would you do that? I guess there could be, like, a treasure trove element or something to it, but yeah, I just felt like it had a lot of like, entendre in it. So yeah, and we have another record called Sugar at the gate. So sort of just felt, once I landed on that, I was like, ‘Okay, this, this feels like the name.’
Emily (CJSW)
Yeah, I think that’s cool. Like, you know, thematically and sonically, it sounds like it’s very similar to, “I Feel Alive” in the sense that, like, it kind of touches on love, but maybe, like, in a different way.
Jane Penny
Like, not classic love songs?
Emily (CJSW)
Yeah, I don’t know it’s almost like you’re seeing a different perspective, I guess, than what we saw on I feel alive. I don’t know if that’s fair?
Jane Penny
I think that’s fair. Definitely. We did an EP called Empty Seats in between the two records and there’s a song called “Perfected Steps.” It was actually kind of about the Trump administration and America. And I was really inspired by America at the time. At that time, it was like the beginning of the pandemic and it was sort of the beginning of, like America just being so ridiculous. And I mean, not the beginning, but it was just like it was really prescient in my mind. And I feel like this record also is kind of, yeah, just like trying to think about darker things, or where we’re at in the world in a different way. Maybe it’s, like, very personal, but also like a little bit more, like a broader view, like try, like outside of myself as well. Yeah, yeah.
Emily (CJSW)
I think, like, in promoting the album, you’ve, like, described it as your evil record.
Jane Penny
Oh yeah, no more. Mr. Nice Tops. [laughs]
Emily (CJSW)
I was gonna ask you to expand on that, but I think you kind of half touched on that.
Jane Penny
Yeah, like, annihilation, I feel like is a bit of like an evil disco song or something. Like, there’s just some kind of twisted elements to it. And I think it’s just been fun to incorporate those types of elements that maybe we haven’t before, because I feel like we we have a lot of like variety in our music tastes as people.
Emily (CJSW)
Yeah. I guess on the topic of your creative process, I know this is also not only the follow up to I feel alive, but also you and Marcy have both embarked on your own solo careers in the last couple of years. So I was kind of curious how maybe that’s influenced your creative process as a band, like, if you could speak to that.
Jane Penny
I mean, I think for Marcy, like she has so much to offer in her own right as a front woman and as a songwriter. And I feel like anytime that anybody like pursues a musical journey like that. They just come out of it more like experienced and just like, even better. So I feel like she’s brought a lot, a lot of perspective to the record, and like the songs that we worked on together, she just, like, you know, just has a lot of experience now, and her voice is, like, grown so much. I don’t, it’s hard to say, whenever you say, like, ‘Oh, they’re better now,’ I feel like there’s this implicit like that they weren’t good before, but like, she was already really talented. It’s just like, I feel like allowing everyone to kind of go out and grow and evolve in those ways, and we just like, bring it all back. And I think there’s also, like, an excitement about collaborating in that way, like I was definitely, after doing this solo thing, so excited to make music with other people. And I feel like doing the solo thing was something really important for me, and it’s still like something I want to do. But I also did a lot of the shows just completely alone. It’s really challenging, and I feel like it really brought it to focus for me, at least that I feel like music is supposed to be… It’s so much about human interaction.
Emily (CJSW)
Yeah.
Jane Penny
And yeah, not that it’s supposed to be, but I really enjoy making music with other people, so.
Emily (CJSW)
It’s like having a conversation, like different people bring different, I don’t know, histories, into the music. That’s cool.
Jane Penny
Yeah, totally.
Emily (CJSW)
Let’s see. What were you listening to while working on the record?
Jane Penny
Mmm, that’s a good question. I’ve been really into Bill Evans lately, which probably isn’t really that apparent on the record. And I’ve also been into kind of like, like Gene Clark and The Byrds and stuff like this, and then Brazilian musicians. I really love Gal Costa, like, forever and ever. And, yeah, I guess lately I’ve been in kind of this, like, I don’t know if it’s like traditional, like, kind of throwback-y classics. But yeah, in terms of the record, I don’t know if that really comes across. I feel like I don’t always, I don’t always look to the music that I listen to in my daily life for direct inspiration, to be honest.
Emily (CJSW)
Because I imagine you probably spend so much time with your music that you’re like, I want to hear something completely different.
Jane Penny
Right, you know, or like, atmospherically, I like certain things. Like, I listen to a lot of ambient music and stuff to soothe myself, that kind of thing. Or, like, Bill Evans is really like, to me, tranquilizing music [laughs].
Emily (CJSW)
Fair enough. [laughs]
Jane Penny
But, yeah, I know, like, there’s been there. Like, for example, we have this song “Falling On My Sword” that’s not out yet. It comes out next week, and we kind of like, pulled from some of David’s love of hardcore music growing up. And it’s always fun when you do, kind of like, decide to wink it like a genre like that, that, yeah, you maybe haven’t normally incorporated.
Emily (CJSW)
That’s really cool though. Always building, always developing, exploring different sonic territories. This record is your first under Ghostly International. How did you connect with that label?
Jane Penny
Well, we just kind of like we were doing self-releasing of our last two albums, and it was really good in a lot of ways, like it allowed us to connect directly with our fans and have a lot of control over what we were doing. But on the other hand, it’s hard, and we’re just not that, like administrative as people, and we weren’t, like, keeping track of everything, and so I think that was a big part of it, just searching for a label, and then the other part was sort of just how extremely difficult it is to actually, like, have your livelihood be based on music right now, and just realizing that, like, we kind of needed to, like, plug into some of this, like industry support if we’re gonna, like, continue to be able to just like live off of music.
Emily (CJSW)
Yeah.
Jane Penny
Yeah, but and then the fact that they were interested, I thought was really interesting, because I love the artists that they work with, and I love that they, I feel like they have, like, a really good aesthetic approach to things, where everything feels artful, and that’s always kind of been something important to me, at least.
Emily (CJSW)
Yeah
Jane Penny
It’s been really great working with them, I feel.
Emily (CJSW)
Like, yeah, that’s awesome to hear. Because I feel like you hear so many horror stories of just labels that are nightmares to work with.
Jane Penny
For sure.
Emily (CJSW)
So it’s nice that you have, like, a good relationship with yours. I’m curious, what role do you think labels should play in artists careers? If you have any thoughts on that.
Jane Penny
Money! [laughs]
Emily (CJSW)
Money! [laughs]
Jane Penny
Not just that, although I do think that that is a really crucial role, and I do get kind of bothered sometimes when there’s labels that want to take half of everything that you’ve made for 20 years or for eternity, and they’re just not funding your creative work, especially because I love making music videos, and I love the visual component of everything. And I guess that would be the other side, besides just the straight up money, but would be like they’ve connected me with a lot of really cool like editors and artists and kind of made certain dream collaborations happen, like the graphic designer Robert Beatty did the cover, and that was like a real dream of mine, and all of the filmmakers that I’ve been able to work with on this and stuff. So I think that that having that sort of like being plugged into the like creatives that can really bring a lot to the music, and then just allowing the artists to do whatever they want and paying for it.
Emily (CJSW)
That’s great. I’ve got a few more questions for you. I know there’s been a lot of discourse over the oversaturation of music festivals, so I kind of wanted to tap into that. You know, consumers are spoiled for choice when it comes to festivals, because there’s so many out there.
Jane Penny
Yeah.
Emily (CJSW)
And I know you’ve had the privilege to play in a lot of festivals over the years, so I’m curious, what do you think makes a great festival from the artist perspective?
Jane Penny
Well, I guess one thing I would say is I feel like in Canada, we’re really lucky to have the type of festivals that we do. We’re working with an American manager now, and she’s just, like, talking to her about, like, oh yeah, my friends, like, are selling stuff at the Art Fair, or, like, a volunteer is gonna sell the merch. And she was kind of like, what? Like, not that, just because it’s not, I feel like there is such a corporate bent to a lot of festivals, especially in the US, whereas in Canada or maybe in Europe and stuff, you’ll have these more like grassroots kind of experiences. Maybe it’s like a camping thing, or maybe it’s like something like Sled where it’s like venues throughout the city, but it’s pulling in a lot of different creative people, and you can volunteer and go for free and all that kind of thing. I feel like, if a festival’s about community at the end of the day and it supports the local community, then that’s a positive for me. I can’t say that I’m a huge fan of, like, big tent destination festivals that are just like, where you’re creating heaps of garbage and, like, roasting in the sun. But it’s still– yeah.
Emily (CJSW)
They’ve kinda lost the plot a little bit.
Jane Penny
I’m just a little fragile [laughs] at the end of the day! It’s crazy to even tour, but um, because I’m such a wimp, but also I just feel like I’m not going to be like, a hater and name certain bands, but like there’s been certain bands that have played those festivals, or been playing those festivals that maybe peaked in like 1994 and that’s like 30 years ago, you know? And I just think they’re not platforming new artists, and I think that’s if there’s an oversaturation or kind of like a boredom with that from an audience perspective, I feel like it’s probably just because there isn’t enough diversity. It’s not a place for music discovery. It might not even be that fun of an experience, and it’s gonna, like, bankrupt you. So I feel like that makes sense to me, if people are getting sick of that. But I really love venue shows. And so I like venue festivals, like, like, Sled. I love going to shows. And I feel like, if it was a bit easier for people to operate venues and put on shows, I feel like people are here for it, yeah.
Emily (CJSW)
Not to mention, like, it gets you out in the city.
Jane Penny
Yeah, like, that’s the other thing, or like, going out and camping and stuff. I feel like sometimes I’ve had really great experiences doing that, and that’s a whole other thing. But yeah, I think that when it does get a bit corporate, it maybe does get a bit stale, and then they’re just maybe kind of running up against that.
Emily (CJSW)
Yeah, fair enough. I have one last question for you. You host a monthly radio program on NTS Radio. I’m a huge fan. Can you walk us through how you approach programming the show?
Jane Penny
I’ve done it all sorts of ways. I feel like that. When I first started it, I was so nervous and, like, try hard about it that I just spent like, weeks on like, laboring over it. And then David and I decided for the last few episodes that to just do like a vinyl only thing, because I feel like there’s this certain trend with music discovery where it’s like you’re trying to find the song that has, like, no plays on Spotify, but it’s like, never.. It’s always like everyone’s listening to the same obscure artists. So we just wanted to kind of, like, escape the algorithm a little bit and kind of give people something that they really couldn’t access any other way. Because I feel like that sort of NTS’s, like, part of their, part of what they’re trying to do. And that was really cool. And then, yeah, it just it is, it is, like, a good it’s just a good excuse for me to try to, like, you know, put down the Bill Evans for a second, find something new. [laughs]
Emily (CJSW)
I feel like I’d still be listening to the same stuff I was listening to 10 years ago, which isn’t even a bad thing, but, like, through my radio show, like, yeah, you have to find new music constantly for the show.
Jane Penny
Yeah, yeah, no, it’s great for me. And I do really like NTS and what they’re about.
Emily (CJSW)
And I like that you touched on, like the human aspect of it, because there’s something about like, the Spotify DJ feature that just makes me feel so existential.
Jane Penny
Yeah.
Emily (CJSW)
I just, like, you know, with real people behind the mic, you know that this was, like, hand curated, there’s usually a story behind it. It makes it more special.
Jane Penny
Yeah, 100%. I feel like music is so much about people connecting with each other, and I don’t really see a future for it when you remove people from the equation. I think that that will be obvious in a few years.
Emily (CJSW)
Well, I think that’s a perfect note to end on.Thank you so much for your time.
Jane Penny
Yeah, thank you, Emily.
Emily (CJSW)
We’ll wrap that up there. Thank you.
Jane Penny
Thank you so much.